Stunned. Flabbergasted. Gobsmacked. Pissed off.
That was my reaction to reading Rob’s post over at The Rise and Sprawl, and this related CBC story, on how Manitoba Hydro wants to gut three heritage buildings in the heart of the Exchange District to make space for an electrical substation.
Yes, you read that correctly, an electrical substation. Because that’s going to go a long way toward making the Exchange District a vibrant neighbourhood and popular tourist attraction. What better complement for the new residences, shops and restaurants that have sprung up in recent years than a bloody substation? I have one at the end of my block, and I couldn’t begin to tell you how popular it is with the urban hipsters.
This might be the dumbest development proposal in recent memory, which is quite an accomplishment. And if the idea wasn’t insulting enough, a Hydro spokesman has the gall to compare it to how Red River College preserved the facades of several heritage buildings during construction of its Princess Street campus. Like there’s any comparison between a college that draws thousands of staff and students each day, and an empty building full of electrical equipment.
I’ll take Hydro’s word for it that a new substation is required in the area, but surely there are better site options available. Like how about one of the giant surface lots that are located two blocks away at Notre Dame and Hargrave?
I can’t imagine this proposal will actually make it to the finish line, but I really wonder how it ever got out of the starting gate. After the aesthetic assault perpetrated by the WRHA with its new building on Main Street, I would have thought the Doer government would be screening these plans a little more closely. Is Gary getting a bit complacent as he heads toward his second decade in power?
UPDATE: Someone at the Province must have chewed Bob Brennan a new one this morning, because Hydro is already backing off from this proposal. The Public Safety Building has been floated as an option by some folks online. I wouldn’t be shocked to see that happen, as the Police Service is desperate to leave, but the City wants to line up an alternate use before proceeding. Hydro could probably pick up the PSB for next to nothing if it agrees to fix the cladding and preserve the the modernist facades (not my cup of tea, but some people are quite protective of this style of design). I’m not saying this is a great idea, but it could have legs.
LOL, ez big fella.
WPGR on NewWinnipeg had a good idea, sell the Public Safety building to hydro. They can fix it up, its big enough for their nuclear reactors and the City gets enough money to build a brand new spanking sweet PSB.
Frog,
Doer = “Complacent”
How about downright “INERT” – feel like wanting to take place in an experiment that proves it?
Gut them and put them to good use.
This is the most brain-dead proposal ever.
Who in their right mind would propose gutting viable buildings on one of the few substantially intact heritage blocks in Winnipeg to house a bunch of electrical machinery? Is Bob Brennan off his meds? Don’t his engineers notice the vacant lots all over the place.
I’m outraged. This is sheer idiocy and I can’t believe it is a serious proposal. If the City and the various interest groups can’t get Hydro to backtrack on this one then all hope is lost.
Who is the Hydro mouth breather who dreamed this one up? I wager it is someone who hasn’t walked a city block in 20 years.
What a totally buffoonish idea.
What exactly is wrong with all of the vacant lots nearby? Are they lacking the grandeur necessary for a hydro substation?
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I don’t see why Hydro wouldn’t take one of the vacant lots, place the substation underground, and strike up a partnership either for development or greenspace above. Wouldn’t that make more sense in a downtown environment?
When cities like Tokyo and Vancouver need expansion of substation capacity, they come up with a 21st-century plan. Manitoba Hydro’s plan is from the 1960s, at best.
[and yes, I blogged about it, too
]
Yes, because the most economical plan was to gut existing heritage buildings (while attempting to keep the facade in tact) instead of building on a nearby vacant lot. Please people…
In regards to development of electrical infrastructure there are a number of major engineering/electrical issues which dictate specific placement of these facilities. Its as if people assume deployment of a substation is like plunking down an IKEA store, sorry people not that easy.
In the end how much more are you willing for hydro to pay to redevelop existing infrastrucutre. Better question, how much is the rural farmer on all-electric heat willing for Hydro to pay so that these currently primarily vacant buildings can be redeveloped. There seem to still be a number of vacant derilect buildings in the area available to investors.
@ Regan: This gov’t obsession with keeping electricity rates ariticifcally low is what pushing a project like this. Innovation comes at a cost Manitobans are completely unwilling to pay for.
Give me a break, voiceofreason.
Are you saying it can’t be done? That a substation can only be built at the corner of Princess and McDermot and any deviation from that will result in the city going dark?
Please.
Maybe Hydro needs to hire some engineers more capable than their current batch.
the blogs have already found solutions.
1) Buy the PSB building from the City and place Hydro equipment there.
2) City gets enough money to build a brand spank in new building.
3) Classify all buildings as grade 1
4) Governments purchase these buildings and in this case, “force’ the Uof M to relocate its Law and Finance departments to the core. With Red River / Uof W, this could be a start to true urban revitalization.
Or
We can dig a pit like Regan says and plant grass on top. Not sure how many people that will attract, but its a novel concept I’m sure the Hydro engineers will appreciate the opportunity
Freedom Manitoba: way to defend the interests of a nationalized “crown corporation”. Do not ask who is destroying the world. You are.
Funny, I live on Princess. And every time I’ve walked by the existing Hydro substation, my first thought is always how easy it would be to redevelop the existing building into something interesting if only Hydro would get out of there…
There is no need for that — good design in electrical substations exists, and one of the best is to get it out of the damn way.
See this post in the New York Times:
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/16/why-not-bury-ugly-substations/
Brian, you talking 55 princess ( police ). I’ve been in there. It won’t be that easy. you are talking gutting the whole thing. To bring the building up to todays specs, the amount of money for an investor is outrageous.
You really have to understand, some of these buildings are total wrecks inside. Without government money and public institutions moving in, it will be very difficult for private capital.
Grant, good link. I think Hydro may have had the South Bronx project in mind.
Interesting to see New Yorkers battling the same issues. It’s not solely a Winnipeg issue.
@ kid: a little dramatic. I think its a little ignorant to judge the capabilities of the engineers without understanding their mandate or parameters given.
Sorry, but even the most cerebrally haemorrhaged head trauma victim you could find at HSC would spot the obvious flaws in Hydro’s scheme.
Hopefully Bob Brennan will administer a much-deserved whipping to the idiots behind it.
Hydro now promising to “consult residents before it does anything,” which could mean anything.
Sigh, no, I don’t mean 55 Princess – I’m further up the street, and yeah, I appreciate the challenges of putting anything into these buildings.
Regardless, it’s hard to believe Hydro could have planned this without believing they’d run into serious opposition.
155 Princess you mean.
“Is Gary getting a bit complacent as he heads toward his second decade in power?” Did you really say this? Has Doer ever been anything other than complacent?
Anyhow, this project is not going ahead, so now worries for now. Perhaps this was the cheapest solution for Hydro, although I find that difficult to believe. But suppose it was … with the millions of dollars Hydro is throwing around up north, and the half a billion dollars it’s wasting on building the new west-side bipole line (thank you Gary) are we really going to penny-pinch here?
Sorry .. please ignore the “did you really say this” sentence. Too snarky, upon re-reading the post.
My point stands that Gary is a very passive “leader”. However, I could see him standing up for the exchange because it is a popular cause.
Manitoba Hydro Contact: Bob Brennan, President & CEO, 474-3600
While we should all be grateful for Hydro getting its Soviet Socialist Assault on heritage buildings STUFFED (!), let’s calm this rush to a “solution” that involves the PSB. Think about it: A) MEGA Bucks for a new cop play pen; B) The City’s Porkiest will now wind up locating among civilized people. Not good. Leave the bureuacrats in blue where they are. Hydro can quit “helping”.
And to the poster who suggested is was all about the desperation to keep prices artificially low: you are correct. A real utility would charge what the resource was worth, and locate themselves in an affordable, rational locale.
Conspiracy! Conspiracy! – an alien behind every rock!
I kind of wonder if Hydro with all its high priced spinners and wonks put the plan on the table knowingly or perhaps at the behest of those pushing for new and very expensive quarters for the PSB .
It is fairly standard game theory that you ask for something outrageous to ensure that you at least get something smaller.
The site isn’t all that far-fetched in terms of location as it is central to a lot of power use…I think that Hydro thought there’d be no blocking this, but had a quick backup response (well, if not there, where?). It is cheapest to build above ground within an already solid structure, but with the location so important to some…you could tell the decision-makers don’t know the area. If anything else, this could push the heritage crowd to rally forces and start attracting tenants to this type of building instead of relying on the museum concept for the Exchange DIstrict.
But. wow. some of the posts…`Force` the U of M to move it`s Law DepartmentÉ Nuclear reactorsÉ Soviet Socialist AssualtÉ It`s hard to take counter-arguments seriously when silly labels slike this get thrown about.
It`s obvious that these buildings, while significant in there own way, were attractive to maybe the only investor willing to move in…does the Heritage crowd have any suggestions for their use other than Museum piecesÉ Kid ZubazÉ ReganÉ
I have several suggestions, ranging from commercial to mixed commercial / residential. But for any of them to work, three changes are needed:
1 – Greater willingness on the part of City Heritage to promote re-use and renewal of the sort that’s accepted in other heritage-friendly cities instead of absolute preservation.
2 – a modest increase in planning resources for one-three years to actually pre-approve changes to buildings in the Exchange so that developers – likely to be small players in that area – have greater certainty around cost risks and what can or cannot be changed in a building BEFORE construction. Easily possible by shifting resources away from blue-sky planning in a few different staff units in and out of the City.
3 – Public agencies who have staff and incentives to support development need to move away from the obsession with the Next Big (Publically Funded) Thing and instead facilitate turnkey solutions for small-scale, floor-by-floor residential projects modest enough for young urban professionals to finance solo. Build turkey solutions for smaller developers with lower risk tolerance. If they can subdivide historic office towers into office condos in Toronto, why can’t we parcel heritage buildings into pre-development residential condo spaces here?
“Here’s a building – here’s your unfinished floor – here’s the permits and approvals already done for basic work – here’s the likely price you need to turn your one empty floor into four finished units; live in one, sell three and suddenly you’ve paid for half of your house and created affordable housing on the way. Here’s our incentive package that kicks in the moment you raise $x to buy in. Here’s a pre-approved change in zoning to residential with supporting regulatory changes so you can finance the construction of up to three other units with the mortgage and residential taxes for your own unit. Can you raise it? Sign here and your price of permits and basic repairs is guaranteed by CentreVenture for one year from signature if you use these contractors’ bids. Go!”
Do that, and I know dozens of people who’d be interested in moving into the area tomorrow, and could finance incremental growth in residential development organically with private mortgage cash and a very modest tax credit. No need for millions from the WHRA or Sport MB or Hydro or demolitions for commercial parking. But this won’t happen because no one is willing to think hard enough when it’s easier to pick up the phone and try to stiff the province for ten million for the eighteenth time.
Many of these buildings have been empty for generations. If the best alternative we can come up with is for the facades to act as an overgrown rain shield for electrical equipment, Is it going to kill us to wait a few more years until the possible becomes… possible?
Nice reasoning, especially number 3…I like 2 as well as it seems (from reading the news) that developers like buying a project, then calling for the wrecking ball when costs don;t go their way…
FYI, the City has listed the PSB as one project that is shovel ready in hopes of receiving funding as part of the infrastructure spending bonanza. They have listed a cost of $100 million. What isn’t clear is whether that’s to reclad the building or relocate.
@average city – I think the recladding is in the neighbouhood of $25 to $30 million, so I’m not sure what the other $70 million would be for.
PF- is it that much. Wow.
Cloutier on his show yesterday with Thiessen said Red River was looking at the PSB.
As far as ideas for redeveloping the subject buildings, I personally think that we’re already building enough momentum that given the right redevelopment partnerships, we’ll find empty space a rarity in the exchange before the end of the decade, even with the economic slump.
I believe that the right mix of transit upgrades and a clearer policy on redevelopment of heritage properties will eventually make the Exchange District the most vibrant part of downtown.